Link to Episode HERE.

🍺 Ever heard of Lithuanian pickle beer? Join us for an epic chat with Chris Campbell, a veteran of Santa Fe’s vibrant bar scene, in this must-listen episode! 🍸 From slinging drinks at high-end restaurants to managing the bar at Susan’s, Chris spills the tea on surviving the pandemic, pivoting to a dream schedule with weekends off, and stocking wild brews like that pickle beer. 🌵 Discover how he’s thrived in the quirky, challenging world of Santa Fe’s hospitality industry, found love, and built a life he loves. Perfect for foodies, bartenders, or anyone curious about life behind the bar!

🔥 Highlights:

The scoop on Lithuanian pickle beer and other crazy brews 🍻

How Chris went from bartending grind to work-life balance

Navigating Santa Fe’s unique restaurant culture

Heartfelt reflections on longevity and love in a tough industry

I talk to people in and around the service industry space, trying to make sense of this wild, beautiful mess of a life. You can find more of my work at ⁠⁠⁠my blog⁠⁠⁠, and all my social links are at the bottom of that page.

As always, I’m just here taking notes, trying to figure out what it all means.

Cheers

Yeah, so Chris, how did you get out of the day-to-day service and get into, I guess, you call it management now? Well, let’s see, I… Like what are you doing now? Yeah, that’s probably a better intro question. I think, you know, pre-pandemic, I was basically moving between different bars, bartending. I had one gig where I was working in an Italian restaurant on Monday nights, and it was amazing money and fun, and got to drink amazing Italian wine. I was also doing private events through one of the restaurants I work at. They have a private event space, and that all just tanked overnight. And so when I went back, I went back to kind of, you know, being a day-bar tender for lunch at a high-end restaurant, and basically doing that, and the private events finally came back, but they took a while. And then as that came back, it was just like, you know, I’d been doing it for like seven years, you know, all in all, not counting the time off that we were closed, but now it’s just time to do something else. And so, Susan’s, which is, you know, the package liquor store I work for now that has a lounge, they had moved to another spot, which was a bigger spot, so they had room to actually have a bar space. And so my girlfriend and I went in there one day, and my friend Jim, who I was already working with, at, you know, another place, had moved over there and become their wine buyer, and I met their GM, who was their spirits buyer, who moved back to New Mexico from the Bay Area, and it was just kind of this cool cohesion these two had, and, you know, they’re working at a small little bar, but at the same time it’s in a liquor store, so every spirit that’s available in the liquor store, you can put on the bar tab and make drinks out of wine the bar. So, where those guys were working with like, you know, I like to call the big box of crayons, or they had all the crayons, all the colors, and I never had that opportunity. You know, I worked in places that focused on, you know, a lot of tequila, obviously we worked in a bourbon-centric place too. So, coming from that, it was kind of like, I talked to those guys the second time I went in there and sat at their bar and had a drink, I was like, so are you guys looking for someone like one day a week? And they’re like, Brian, the GM’s like, whatever you want, man. And so I started working on Tuesdays, and then I would pick up Thursdays, and in the process, you know, the pay rate was really good, the tips were awesome, and I was out by eight o’clock every night. So, it was kind of everything I was looking for at the time. You know, I still want to make drinks, and I wanted to be at a bar open to the public because I had done so many years where, you know, it was just private events, so I didn’t get to see, you know, a regular clientele, I didn’t have friends come visit. Yeah, it’s more like grindstone, like you got five hours of intense work and then you’re done. Well, you know, it’s one service, like I always said, you know, just do one full-all of service and go home, which is not too bad, because, you know, there were times when we were able to do like, you know, three-course dinner with cocktails in an hour and a half. Which is insane. Yeah, 30 minutes set up, 30 minute closed down, you know, two and a half hours your own. It wasn’t always that case, but you know, that was kind of the record we had set. But now I went over there and I started really enjoying it and, you know, things happened and like one of the staff members left so they had more shifts open. And again, I was like, you know, I’m thinking about coming over here more often and the phrase I heard again from the GM, Brian was, whatever you want. No one’s ever said that to me in my entire career, you know. I’ve been doing this for over 20 years, just as a bartender and, you know, I have restaurant experience as well that goes for the back. No one ever says, what do you want? They say, this is what I need. So just kind of having that kind of, you know, freedom was new to me. And so I thought about it and I was starting a new relationship at the time and she’s in physical therapy. So she works money through Friday, basically nine to five. And so I was like, what if I could kind of do something that’s very similar in hours, you know? And so I came back to them. I was like, okay, how about Tuesday through Thursday? And then I’ll do like a half shift on Friday and I’ll be out at four o’clock. And he’s like, that’s awesome. That’s perfect. That’s exactly what we need. And then in the process, that’s the needed a beer buyer. So I started doing that as well. And so now my schedule is Monday through Friday, Monday I go in for two hours and do my beer orders. Tuesday I work an eight hour shift. Wednesday I do a full open to close, which is only 10 hours. Thursday is another eight hour shift. And then Friday I’m there 10 a.m. to four p.m. So I’m out of there. And I’ve got the weekends off to do what I want. And it’s awesome, you know? Do you ever feel guilty on the weekends? Do you ever like have that residual Saturday night stress hit you at seven o’clock? We’re like, I should be busy right now. You know, it’s funny because we do a lot of business early evening Friday. And I was actually over there this last Friday, just hanging out with my girlfriends and friends and they just got pummeled. And it was just kind of like, I think the best thing I can do is give them this table so they have a little more space for people to sit down. So I don’t know if I feel guilty, but it’s like, you always feel like maybe I should be doing this, maybe I should be doing that. Maybe I’m not helping. I think that never goes away no matter how much you put in. Sure. So you really only buy the beer pretty much one day. So you’re predominantly bar tender with additional responsibilities? Right, I manage the bar basically because I’m the one that tends the bar most. Cool. Like a head bar tender. Yeah, exactly. Like my position is beer buyer and bar manager. Okay. Cool. Yeah, that’s awesome. Did you keep up with the Cicero and stuff after I left? I never did, no. No? How do you buy beer? You just go off of what you like or? So, you know, I look at like, I have the smallest inventory in the store. So I basically have three coolers and that’s where I can sell my beer. So, you know, I have limited skews. So that helps. I feel like, you know, after doing it for a while you start to see what sells and you know, working in this industry long enough you know what’s gonna sell and you know what’s successful. But then you get good buyer or good, you know, sales reps that come in and they offer you new product and they taste you a new product. You know, that’s where I’m like, is there a niche for this particular beer on my cooler? And can I sell it? And that’s always the question I ask myself. It’s like, you know, it’s not necessarily what do I want to drink because, you know, I have my own palette. It’s like, what would sell well through this cooler thinking about, you know, everyone from the octogenarian to the new 21 year old that are gonna come in and look at this stuff. And so it’s like, you know, I try to have like the best representation of everything for my limited skews. What is, what are you like, what’s the most exotic when you got at the moment? Just curious. I have a Lithuanian pickle beer. What? You know, I could have guessed a thousand different things I would have gotten close. No one’s ever gonna guess that one. No. Is it? And it’s fun because you know, you have these adventurers and like, I’m able to sell single beers that people can drink on premise in our beer garden. So it’s like, you know, they buy a single beer, I give them a frosty mug. They can sit and enjoy it. And so I think a lot of those people get really adventurous because you know, they’ll come in and get their first beer and then they’ll like, start really scanning what’s weird. And like I said, anything I have that’s unusual, I like to single it out that way, you know, you don’t have to invest in a four pack, a six pack, whatever, you know, usually one beer for an adventurer is not gonna kill them, you know? Yeah, yeah. You can’t really die from one beer. And then, do you have the ability to get like a six pack after that, if you like it? Oh, sure. That’s cool. Yeah. So essentially it is like brew pub model, but with bar attached full spirits. Sure, that was the idea, you know, it’s like I’d been to a lot of those tap houses over the years. That’s cool. And I always enjoyed the tap house experience, you know, there was one in Austin years ago that on Fridays, we’d go over there and we didn’t have class and our friend behind the bar would just ask us to change cakes for them, because they knew we were in the industry. They’d be like, go change cake number, you know, 136. You know, go do that. Do you get free beer from it? Can you get free beer? That’s it. That’s cool. Not a bad way to earn your keep as, you know, some fun beer. Yeah. Well, you’ve been in the industry for a while, as long as I knew you. Sure. Is that what you’ve done your whole life? I spent some time, you know, it’s like I went to college, got a degree. I had a communications major with a German minor. I had some things set up after college that fell through, but I started, you know, basically really front of the house service industry stuff when I was 17 and I’m 47 now. So I spent some time, you know, 30 years working for, working for, you know, a big, a big grocery, grocery retailer and their beer and wine department. And I did three year, three and a half years with them. I did, you know, almost a year with a distributor as their office manager, but everything else I’ve done has been pretty much, you know, within bartending or waiting tables in the service industry. Yeah. Well, you were always really, really good. I still remember, for the listeners, me and Chris actually helped open up Radish and Rye. So that’s where we, you know, formally met and got to know each other. And that was intense. You started as a server and then quickly joined the bar team, but you were always, you were always great. You’d always show up on time. You always knew, you know, knew your shit and never had to worry about you. And the only thing we had to worry about me and you is if we show up like a little hungover, but we still power through. Yeah, exactly. It was a whiskey bar, you know, you’re going, you’re going to be hungover sometimes. I still remember one service we did together on a Sunday. And I think it was like Memorial Day weekend. And Sunday Memorial Day, we’re just getting hammered, just crushed, destroyed, you know, people coming in right and left, tons of walk-ins. We already had a full rezzo book. And you looked at me and you’re like, how are you doing? I was like, I’m drowning. And you’re like, me too. And we just laughed and kept going. That does sound like me. Yeah. Yeah. Like we couldn’t help each other, we could mis-rate in that second, you know? It was enough to get through the night. Well, you have something that I really value. It’s something I see in myself that I see in seasoned, like well bartenders and some like real, like intense guys on the line in the kitchen. That lack of freak out, like, you know, even if you’re busy and even if you can say it out loud, you don’t fall apart. Yeah. You know, you have that like, okay, I can see the weeds, but I can see through them. Yeah, you find your pressure valves, you know? And it’s like, maybe you have to go in the back real quick and just, you know, cuss it out or yell a little bit. You know, maybe you need to go out by the dumpster and kick a box. But, you know, everyone finds their pressure valve. That’s a nice, I think, the reason I smoked. Over the years, you can learn to smoke a little more. You get better at internalizing it a little bit better. Yeah. If you go along in the industry. The thing that reminds me, like the thing I always think about with Radish and Rye, so I don’t even know if I ever told you this story, but I was kind of pretending to the owners for a long time, like even though it was obvious that I didn’t smoke, try to smoke them like the edge times, not smell too bad. It was right after we opened and like it was an intense shift and I wanted to go smoke. And so I was telling Quinn that I wanted to pick up my tips from Coyote because I’d worked for the open. Yeah. And he, you know, he was like, why do you, I forget how he said it, but it was something along the lines of like, why do you need money right now? You like, you going to buy crack? What are you doing? And I like, I didn’t have a response because I really didn’t care about getting the money. I wanted to go smoke. Sure. I was just like, no, I just need my 40 bucks. I don’t know. Just makes me feel better if it’s in my pocket. Yeah. And my pocket’s lighter one cigarette, so I feel better too. Exactly. Yeah. Well, cool, man. It’s been forever since I’ve talked to you. What else is new in your life? Like you got a new girlfriend and. Yeah, the relationship that’s going on three years now. That’s awesome. We live together more, just enjoying each other and our company. And it’s kind of nice to have that person. It’s like I’m 47 years old and I was like, never married, no kids, never even asked the woman to marry me. And now it’s like, I’m thinking different things. Yeah, for sure. Planning a life with someone else, which is kind of what I always be solo. Yeah. It does kind of, I found for good or bad, it kind of socializes you. I was looking for the right adjective there. Sure. Yeah. Now, but if you could find someone you’re with on your days off and you don’t have to make any effort to be with them, it’s like being by yourself. You know? Yeah. And it’s great. Better. But better, exactly, because you’re not solo. Obviously better. Yeah. What was it like working in Santa Fe during the pandemic? You kind of mentioned that earlier. Oh, yeah. That’s right. Yeah. Let’s see. I mean, just to sum it up, just talking about, so I was over at Coyote Cafe. I was traveling just as the pandemic was starting. Like I spent a month in Cuba. During the pandemic? As it was starting. Oh, Jesus. At the very beginning. I came back from Cuba early February 2020. And by March 17th, we had shuttered all the bars and restaurants in Santa Fe and New Mexico. So this place had just been taken over by Quinn Santa Cafe. It was an institution for years that he bought. And then so I felt like we came in there and we opened the place, wanted to shutter it. And then we reopened it again, wanted to shutter again. And then finally reopened a third time, basically. And it’s been open since. At the same time, we started to get really good at shuttering places, which is not a skill I want to have. I always say, the two hardest things to do in the restaurant world are to open a place. That’s the hardest. The second hardest is to have to shut a place. Even if it’s temporary, it still hurts. Yeah. Because it’s an admission of defeat. Yeah. We all had defeat because we were all legally not allowed to open. Yes, seriously. There was nothing I could do legally. I’d sit around my house and collect unemployment and find ways to keep myself sane because I’m a very active brain and I kind of need work. It’s one of those things. Are there any restaurants I know that just didn’t open up? Because I’ve been back since the pandemic. That just didn’t reopen? Yeah. There’s a few. Like I had mentioned earlier, I worked for a restaurant group that had a place called Boosh. They had a place called Maze, Tratria Mono. They didn’t make it, huh? They closed the whole restaurant group. Oh, man. Just never even bothered. Never even bothered to seek some kind of subsidies for the employees or try to get it through. They just shut everything and never reopened. Restaurant industry is so hard. You have so much capital locked up in essentially perishable goods that have like a week-long expiration date. And you shut it down for a month, two months as it came over. That can be detrimental to a place that’s basically operating like almost like people operate paychecks to paycheck. I mean, there’s a lot of restaurants that operate quarter to quarter and sometimes day to day. Yes. It’s literally nickel diamond quarter to quarter. Yeah. Wow, yeah. Right when I moved to Santa Fe, there was a bar that got being then shut down for not paying their taxes. And that’s like your last ditch borrowing from the IRS to pay your staff. Sure. It’s a game you can’t play forever. And I’ve seen it over the years in multiple places. Being in Santa Fe, I’m here 21 years as a Valentine’s Day this last year. I’m now 21 years and said, if it’s the longest place I’ve ever lived, the longest place I’ve ever worked in this industry. But you just watch them come and go. Sometimes it’s unexpected. And sometimes it’s like, well, I’m not shocked. Yeah. That weird place on the corner that never had anyone in it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not shocked. But some of these other places seem to be doing really well with generating money. It’s like, you don’t realize how much that money is to perishable products that literally you have a week to use. Sometimes less. You know? Being a landlocked place, it’s like, how does anyone even get fish here? It’s been frozen three times. And it’s touched at least four different hands. And each hand means the price goes up. Well, that’s why every fish supplier in New Mexico’s named something like absolutely fresh or above seawater. Just the best. We promise it’s good. If you have to name your restaurant absolutely fresh food, like, yeah, it’s worrisome at least. I was going to ask you, you know, Santa Fe, being landlocked, being in the… I always thought, you know, I love Santa Fe, but it’s kind of weird. It’s different than everywhere that I’ve lived. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. What is that? I think, you know, this place is like, you know, it’s an ancient place with ancient culture. And, you know, I think I’ve always said about Santa Fe, that there are people that move here. And it’s always those first three years that determine if you’re going to stay here at all. And whether that’s a fourth year or, you know, someone like me who’s been here two decades. It’s like the first three years make or break you. And it’s like, if you can move here and take all your preconceptions and just awesome, forget about it. Because this place is not going to run like any place you’ve ever lived. And, you know, you see people that come here from bigger markets that have worked in amazing places, you know, you know, mostly, you know, from each coast, but they come in, they’re like, no, I’m changing. California. Yeah. I know what you’re talking about. It’s kind of the East Coast, West Coast mentality that comes through here where it’s like, no, I can fix this place. Like never look to fix Santa Fe. Look to become a little more broken and you’ll be just fine. Yeah. And, you know, you just have to, you have to surrender. You know? It is the land of Mugnaana. The land of next week, you know, for sure. Yeah. You know, do you remember Natalie Bovis? Yeah, of course. I saw her a couple of days ago. Oh yeah. She’s given up for her event. I know. Yeah, she’s one that I… Oh, sorry, you go. She gets… We help bring in some things for her event so they can happen. Oh, Susan… We have a liquor license that we rent for events. Oh, so she kind of works with you guys, huh? We get to see her around this time of year every year. Oh, that’s super cool. I wondered, you know, I worked just for those of you listening. I actually worked for a little while as Natalie’s assistant. And part of that was signing some NDAs. And I can never remember what I can say. So I just say very little. But I remember when that festival started, we used a different liquor license and that fell through. And then I stopped working for her. And so I’d always wondered what she was doing to go around that. So that’s super cool. That’s why anytime I talk about her, I’m always like, long, you know, I think I can say this. Yeah. That’s the problem with those NDAs. I know, I know. I’m excited. It wasn’t even like that, probably legally blinding of one, but it’s one where like, I really love Natalie. I wouldn’t want to like blow up her spot or do anything crazy. Never, she’s great. But she is one that, you know, straight from California, actually came out to New Mexico, went back to Cali, then came back. And she’s her own person, you know, entrepreneur, runs her own business. Oh, true. The stop gaps that she did, you know, she worked some shifts as bartenders, she worked some shifts and people had offered her management positions. Right. And she is always, I think it’s good, she was an entrepreneur, because I don’t think she was ever going to work. Unless it was someone in like California, you know, a bigger market that things were structured a little bit more. No, it’s funny speaking about her, cause this last week she came in and we were just kind of trying to remember when we first met. And we realized it was 15 years ago when she was bartending with another friend of mine at a place that she worked temporarily. And now she’s got, the compound, them guys, it was like, where was she? She was at the Anasazi when I first met her. Oh, with James, right? Yeah, with James. Yeah, she did do that for her. Donnie was over there. So yeah. But so you get a kick out of this, she just released a new book that has nothing to do with our industry. It’s about cat gods. Oh yeah, just so you know, Chris, she’s coming on before you, the week before. Oh nice. Yeah, I got to reconnect with her. I need to promote her stuff then. Oh no, no, no, you should because I think when you come out, I think it’s right around the time that the book launch party is. Oh cool. Coming out, yeah. I’m always happy to see her hustle cause I admire it, you know? Yeah, I mean, someone who’s trying to be something. There’s a couple people around here, there’s great, great models of just like how to hustle, you know, we’ve gotten to work with a lot of them. So that’s pretty cool. Yeah. Oh, that’s really cool. Oh yeah, who knew? The world is smaller than you think. Yeah, truly. Did you get one of Natalie’s cat books? I have not yet. That’s okay. I would. I think I autographed cat book for sure. I think that I have one in the mail. We, so with her next cat book, she’s got a cat playing cards, essentially. They’re like tarot cards, but more Oracle cards. Yeah. So we drew Artemis in our conversation. I was very excited. That’s great. I was going to ask you, one of the things I’d written down, yeah, how do you, you know, because I’ve done a lot of people who’ve worked rush on industry and then have dropped out over the last 20 years I’ve worked it and gotten a non-industry job. How do you think you’ve survived for so long? Like what gave you longevity? You know, I think you go through a lot of pitfalls, you know, like you kind of learn when you’re young. It’s like, you know, maybe that’s not the kind of place I want to work anymore. I mean, I worked at two places that I have actually called Margarita factories. And that’s what they were. And the money was so good that like, you know, you get your ass kicked and you make a thousand margaritas in a night, but you know, you’re walking with cash every night, you know, the golden handcuffs are there. So I think some of the longest places I’ve worked is because, you know, I’d lived in the work we were doing and the money was good. And so, you know, you get this kind of idealistic viewpoint of it. And we’re not doing anything to save lives. You know, we’re not a religion, we’re not a cult. We’re just kind of, you know, like I like to call the people I work with now, actually one of the guys I work with, Dan George came up with this term, he’s like, you know, we’re all super intelligent underachievers. I think there’s a lot of- Super intelligent underachievers. Yeah. So that’s a term Dan George made up and I gotta give him credit for it. But it really puts into perspective, it’s like, you know, we have a lot of knowledge. And we’ve been in the sensory long time learning. And, you know, you get to apply that stuff as you get older. And so I think, you know, you just kind of, you kind of spot the red flags and you avoid those places, you know. You see places that have little turnover and the people working there seem happy. You’re like, I wanna go work with a place like that, you know, versus the places where, you know, I’ve gotta meet a new bartender this month because the people I know are gone. We’ll see what next month looks like. Yeah. I think the same consistency is maybe realized that it’s possible. Yeah. Do you think it’s just that you’re picking well? Because I can’t think it is only that. You gotta, I mean, maybe. Maybe it is simpler. Yeah. You know, I don’t think that’s everything. No. It’s no matter if I still feel like I’m doing something that’s relevant and exciting to me too, you know. Mm-hmm. Because I mean, if I had a job where every single day was the same, I wouldn’t last two weeks. If every day was so structured and the same that it was like Groundhog’s Day, like that’s my nightmare. Yeah, you value the different, the excitement. Oh, sure. Like no two days are ever gonna be the same in our industry. No matter how you slice it. It’s true. Just human interaction alone is always gonna be different. Mm-hmm. I guess. I guess. The like events industry, like what you used to do, the catering, is that to the extreme? Like you don’t even have regulars. Oh no. Yeah, you’re not building a clientele at all. I mean, it was cool doing it for seven years at the events space at Coyote because you had people that came back every year. So that’s how you knew you were doing something right. Because you know, in the seven years I was there, there were several groups that came back every year. And so I’m like, that’s your feedback. You know, that’s your confirmation that you guys are doing it to the best of your ability. But you don’t see it immediately. You don’t see that person that comes back that same week. Such a slow feedback loop. You don’t get that. So it’s kind of tough, you know? It’s like looking back on it after, you know, not knowing I was gonna be there that long, but I’m glad I was, cause it was a great opportunity. But like to really see like these groups started coming, like, you know, there’s a group that would start coming twice a year. That’s awesome. Yeah. At the same time, it’s like, you know, you need a little validation in this industry. So it’s like, you know, sometimes that person that came back the next day is your instant gratification. And then like, you know, looking back on multiple years of dealing with the same group, it’s like that’s your long-term gratification. That’s cool. Yeah. I mean, I think even more than just that industry, you know, you need that feedback loop cause you’re human. We all need to feel like we’re doing a good job. Even the ones that pretend like they don’t, you know, like, everyone needs a pet pet. Especially need it. Yeah, exactly. Those are the ones you really need to take care of. Oh yeah. We’re looking at you, Sabry. I was like, I had to say that at some point, but that was the one reference. We won’t go there. You still live in New Mexico. So would you have changed anything? Anything you would have done differently in the last 30 years? Oh, sure. I mean, you can always look back. I don’t have a lot of regrets, but yeah, I’m sure there are a lot of things I could have done differently. Yeah. But run till that. Yeah. At some point, it’s like, you know, maybe I should have just gone immediately and got my master’s degree. Yeah. You never know. But, you know, I’m happy. I’m happy with where I am now, you know, what I have to show for what I’ve done over the years. For sure. Awesome. At the same time, I’m sure there’s a lot of things I could have done differently. You know, when you think about 30 years, that’s a lot. Yes. I mean, there’s stuff last week. There’s stuff last week I could have done differently. For sure. Yeah. I was just thinking like 30 years. That’s like 10,000 days. Yeah. Seriously. That’s a lot. Yeah. That’s a lot. Well, you have anything cool or exciting coming up or what’s the future look like for you? You know, I just kind of really hope that we can keep the program going. I’m in now at Susan’s, like I said, you know, working with multiple bartenders who have over 20 years experience. It’s like we get to dialogue and workshop cocktails together when we make a new list and it’s just fun. You know, it’s like I got this idea for this and that’s how it starts. And then it’s like, okay, how about that? And you know, it’s like you really have people that like give you feedback in the best possible way. And then you sit there and you’re like, okay, I’m never going to reinvent the wheel with cocktails, but I can find weird new ingredients that are in the state before. That’s usually how I start my drinks. Yes. Lithuanian pickle beer. Lithuanian pickle beer, for instance. Back to that. That I’m not going to lie. That is the first thing I’m looking up whenever we’re done talking. Yeah. I’ll have to send you the label. Yes, please do. It’s probably the most esoteric thing I have right now and I like to pick up some weird shit for the beer coolers. Well, hey, you know, Chris, it’s been 10 years since I really got to talk to you, so I’m really glad that I got to reach out and chat for a little bit. That’s a nice way to catch up for sure. Yeah, I know. It’s a weird thing, but it’s actually been fun, you know, kind of going through and meeting people and then also recreating, you know, the past and, you know, listeners like, I mean, Chris went and got lunch, probably once a week for, what, three years? Easily. Yeah, yeah. At least, you know. I think I hope that they kept the box card in business. Yeah. But now I was thinking, because you asked me, like, when we first met, and the first time I met you was actually, you were studying for one of your wine certifications, I can’t remember which one it was, but you had studied during the day in the Matador. That’s right. When Anty Eager was bartending there. Mm-hmm, yeah. It’s the first time I really met you. 2012 or 13, somewhere in there, because I got this certified in 2015. Yeah. Yeah, man, we haven’t talked since then. So I got into the advanced. Oh, congratulations. I passed everything except for tasting. So the downside is it’s a once-a-year test, and if you don’t do it, reset to zero. So. Right. Yeah, I don’t know if I’ll ever do it, but. I hope you keep at it, man. It’s close enough that I’m like, oh, man. It would be great if I was just terrible at it. Because then I could say, all right, I can’t do this. I quit. But to get it at 58% and then 60% of passing is like, OK. If I spent an extra hour a week, could I have done it? It’s almost, I think, I’ll have to look it up. There’s something called, I think it was Regent Beta or Beta Complex, where it’s like, when things aren’t bad enough, it’s almost the worst thing that can happen, because it doesn’t motivate you to fix it. Right. I’m close enough that I keep studying, even though if I’d just been worse, I would have given it up by now. Well, I think those are the things that really improve us. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, the victories are great, but it’s the defeats that really make us have that existential crisis. Maybe I should be doing something else. It is a lot more destructive. I’m going to keep with it. It’s like, it’s like, there’s a lot of stuff around this industry that’s like an abusive love affair. You know? Yes. And that’s a good example right there. Yes. How much can you conquer the infinite, ever-changing world of one beverage? And we will just ask you random questions about Italy and China till you cry. Yes. That seems about right. Cool. Well, Chris, I hope it’s OK. I’m going to take off. I actually. I’ve got lunch coming up. I mean, Anne are going to go get a bite to eat. And hi. I will. I will. If you ever want to, shoot me a message. Give me a call. I’m very bad at responding to things in a timely manner, but I am great at responding eventually. Thanks. That’s fine. Likewise with me, you know, and hopefully you guys get a chance to come back here as soon as we. I need to. I know. It’s. Yeah, I got sucked into management working and like, you know, I say sucked into I’ve got a really good job. Like things worked out. I think me and you probably ended up better than most of the people we saw in Santa Fe. But I get two weeks off a year and I usually want to go to the beach. I’m sorry. I’ll blame you. Yeah. I like to go to the beach, too. I know. Well, if you ever are flying through the middle of the country for some weird reason, you never know, man, looking to stock bright eyes. You never know where I’m going to wind up. So exactly. I will definitely let you know if I get close. Awesome. For some reason, all of this is unusable. I totally understand. Well, it’s cool. The good thing about not being marked for kids is we’re pretty. It’s pretty easy. Good. Yeah. I tried to keep it in. Exactly. Just wait till Natalie’s comes out. She actually used the phrase circle jerk. I was like, oh my God. Oh, I love her. Natalie Bobas. The woman, the legend. I know. I tried not to listen to any of your previous ones because I didn’t want to have some kind of weird influence. It’s like, well, then. I just want to go free form. Did you ever meet Shane Alexander, the chef from El Frol? He’s on it. It’s funny because he mentioned that to Elisa. And Elisa texted me last week. Oh, really? You. And she says to tell you hello. Oh, man. I need to. But then she says that Shane keeps talking about how he was on your podcast. Really? Yeah. How does Shane know Elisa? He’s a shamrock rep, right? Or something like that. Oh, so he gives him the coyote, maybe? So I think that’s his account. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Santa Fe, man. Everybody knows everybody. Everybody knows everybody. And it happens to be that when I essentially grew up in the industry, I’m from there. And the thing is, for all the things that are wrong with Santa Fe, I am calling the people and talking to the people there first because there’s color there. You know? Like the people I run into in Tulsa are fine. But man, there’s some personalities and some intensity in Santa Fe. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t. It goes with the territory here. You know, you kind of have to be. Yeah. Like you have to be kind of the larger the life. Works 100 hours a week from South Africa. Chef. Cool. Yeah. Bringing on Shane. Just to make history for yourself in that industry. Yeah. Santa Fe is so weird. What is it? 50,000 people? It’s more now. It’s probably like 80. Maybe. Yeah, but still. I mean, that’s the thing. That’s not much. But it’s 80,000 people serving millions who like dream is to go and eat there and be there for a week. Yeah. Yeah. Such a weird one. That was kind of a wild thing when you think about it. I need to go back. I really do. My to-do list is growing at an exponential rate. But I’m seeing it when you can, man. And I get I get the lure of the beach too. I’m not mad. Sure. Cool. All right. I’m going to hang out. It was good talking to you, buddy. All right, brother. Take care.