Full Episode HERE.

In today’s episode, I sit down with Kayla Herrera: Director of Education and Training at Iconik Coffee Roasters, latte art competitor, and one of the most intentional service professionals I’ve ever worked with.

We talk about the hidden emotional cost of great hospitality, what it takes to train a world-class barista, and how to find meaning in a career that many people see as “just a job.”

Kayla also opens up about the pressure to lead, the fine line between passion and burnout, and what happens when your career goals start to clash with your personal life.

Whether you’ve worked in coffee, cocktails, or any high-touch industry: this conversation will hit home.

Expect to learn:

• Why most barista training fails
• The unexpected difficulty of coffee service
• How to inspire Gen Z employees without BS
• The true role of a service professional
• How to build a systems-driven culture without losing the heart
• What it really means to move with intention

Links:

• ⁠Iconik Coffee Roasters⁠
• ⁠4,000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman⁠
• Kayla on Instagram – (@kayla.nancy.barista)

Service starts now.

Follow the show: ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠

I talk mostly to people in and around the service industry space. I’m looking to hear from the people I wish I could have talked to when I was coming up in restaurants. Said another way: I am trying to make sense of this wild, beautiful mess of a life, and help others that are feeling similarly confused and/or lost. You can find more of my work at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠my blog⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and all my social links are at the bottom of that page.

Classic Episodes You May Like:

-#10:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nat Harry, cocktail expert!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-#14:⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Dr. Shalini Bahl, mindful marketing⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-#22:⁠⁠⁠Doug Frost MW MS⁠⁠⁠

-#23:⁠⁠Jeffrey Morgenthaler⁠⁠

As always, I’m just here taking notes, trying to figure out what it all means.

Cheers

Speaker 1 (00:00.646)

Thank you for tuning in to Serves You Right. This is Andrew and today we are talking to Keila Herrera. Keila was the witness at my wedding. Me and her started working together at Coyote Cafe in Santa Fe years and years ago. She is one of the biggest fans of coffee I have ever met in my life and really just a fantastic person. I was really happy to get a chance to catch up and we’ll probably do it again. It’s been way too long since we talked so…

Thank you for listening to Serves You Right. Here’s Kuma.

Hello?

Hey, hey, there we go. Oh my goodness.

my gosh, I didn’t know if it was gonna happen there for second.

Speaker 2 (00:45.282)

I know. was like, is it my connection? I tried getting as close to my internet box. I live in Nambe now, so I’m a little more in the country. Nambe? Where is that? Do you know where Puwak is?

Number?

Speaker 1 (01:02.83)

That sounds familiar.

Yeah, so it’s like going towards us in your life

Okay, so like true middle of nowhere.

Kind of, yeah kind of. It’s only like 30 minutes from Santa Fe. So it’s not too bad. But I do live country life these days.

Considering that five minutes from Santa Fe is country life for sure

Speaker 2 (01:23.986)

Yeah. Well, I mean, like, I feel like I can, like I’m right by a creek and it’s like off the beaten path and it’s kind of like around trees and I feel like I’m in a little valley of beautifulness. Yeah, yeah.

That’s awesome. What led you to move out there?

I moved in with my girlfriend.

Congratulations. I’m going to go ahead and guess that this is a coffee aficionado as well.

Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:58.646)

Actually, Quite opposite. She loves coffee, though.

No, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:04.13)

Okay, but not known for her latte art.

No, no, that nope, not known for her latte art. That would be something.

That would be… There’d be no stopping the two of you.

I feel like it would be just a really competitive relationship.

Yeah. man. So what is going on with you? Do you run a coffee shop now? Or you own a coffee shop? I wasn’t quite sure,

Speaker 2 (02:27.338)

Yeah, yeah. So I’m the Director of Education and Training at Iconic Coffee Restores. So I don’t own, but I do manage. I was also a part of the operation team and then I kind of moved into this field. But yeah, I’ve been with Iconic for five years. I’ve been in coffee for 10, which is kind of crazy to think about.

Yeah, since right when we met was when you’re going to get into it.

Yeah, yeah. And it’s so crazy. I was, you know, just thinking about how the first competition I ever went to was yours in Denver.

You did come to, oh man, Diplomatico, didn’t you? Yes. The run. Oh man.

Yes, I did. Yeah. Yeah. But it was really cool to watch, watch you do that and see that level of competition. Like, and then, so now when I compete, for, Latte Art, it’s the same thing. It’s there’s so much like mental practice and, you know, just everyday practice of like, you do this every day, but now you’re like being watched.

Speaker 2 (03:39.546)

in every corner, you know, every time. Yeah, like there was one time where I hesitated one way and I meant to go the other way in my performance and like they wrote that down and were like inconsistent bar flow. And so it’s just like those things that I’m always constantly thinking about even when I am on bar. I’m like trying to perfect that level of service so that when I do compete, it’s like

By everyone’s eyes, yes

Speaker 2 (04:09.194)

natural muscle memory.

Even though you are director of training and education, you still run the coffee bar from time to time.

Yes, I do. do. A lot of it’s because I love it, to be honest. But it’s great because then I get to understand what complaints there might be or what other people are saying that maybe we don’t see as managers because we’re not on floor as much. So it helps me kind of stay in the loop of what’s going on. Are people doing this right? Are they doing it wrong?

Hmm, okay.

Speaker 2 (04:47.64)

you know, every shift is a training. It’s a training to, it feels like.

Sure, yeah. Well, any plan that you have when you come into contact with the public just goes out the window. I know that.

Yeah, no, exactly, exactly. Yeah, so it’s really fun and I’ve really grown into training and I’m so knowledgeable in coffee. It’s so much fun for me to like, like my biggest thing I like to iterate is move with intention. And so, you know, I’m training an 18 year old who has never worked a job like this and service in general. And there’s so much at Iconic because we serve

a full menu food wise that it feels like a restaurant.

Yeah, I was gonna ask, can you tell me more about that? Cause it does, it kind of reminds me of the challenge I see at McDonald’s where they have these like 14 to 16 year olds that they have to turn into like competent lion like cooks. Like the average age of who I’m dealing with is a lot older. So I’m like, what is that even lacking? A lot of fresh 18 year olds.

Speaker 2 (05:49.077)

Right.

Speaker 2 (05:59.212)

Honestly, it’s fun and refreshing their energy, but then there are some points where I’m like, okay, a big thing I’m always telling myself is how can I inspire them? I feel like some of these guys don’t know what that means to stay inspired and do your best at work. And so I’m always trying to find ways to make the job fun.

but also like life skills that even if they don’t stay at Iconic, like they can go to any restaurant job or any service job and be qualified to do those tasks because they were taught early on how to multitask, how to anticipate, how to kind of like improve every customer you get and also how to deal with the hard customers that

you know, make you question what you’re doing in this industry.

You have joined the training side. You did say all that so diplomatically. hard customers, yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:13.462)

Yes, yes. mean, you know, it’s, it’s so funny because like, I’ve worked, you know, at the restaurant with you and other restaurant jobs. And I feel like one thing I’ve learned is that coffee is just service wise, so much harder. And I don’t know, it’s like fast transactions, but there’s a sense to the community where I feel like sometimes they don’t see us as humans anymore. Like they’re like,

there’s like a disconnect at some time, like at some points with customers where I’m just like, okay, wait, I’m a human being. Like I’m doing my best and it’s, you know, at the end of the day, it’s just coffee. And that’s coming from me who loves coffee as a whole in the industry in general. it’s, I understand where sometimes I see employees struggle in responding.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:13.752)

diplomatically.

to some of those intense interactions, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. so and it’s like I’ve experienced this too. But at some point, like you need to step back and just like not take it personally. And keep going.

definitely get in the restaurant. You you interact with people while they’re at the lowest energy level and hungry. You, it seems like have the benefit of getting some of that plus people when they’re at their most stress moments on the way to work and also caffeinated when they feel the worst in the day. And so you the trifecta and yeah, all at the rush hour.

It really is. always like to joke. And it’s, you know, it’s, it’s semi true, but I’m always like, man, I haven’t had my cup of coffee either. Like, you know, you’re the first customer to walk in the door. I was rushed to open. Like, I get it. I’m with you, you know. But on the other end, I do taste before I open just to make sure quality control is good. But it’s just like this running joke of like, they think because you work in a coffee shop, you’re just like, he’s my week.

Speaker 2 (09:24.686)

and maybe to an extent you could be, but most of the time, like we’re drinking our coffee cold, because we’re like in service. Stand up and enjoy our cup of coffee. know, it’s kind of just like, give me a shot of espresso and let’s go.

We don’t have time to just…

Speaker 1 (09:40.14)

Yeah, I do think that trip that trip we took to it was Colorado. I think that was the most caffeinated trip I ever took. just throwing that out there. I we visited a couple of coffee shops. Yeah. Didn’t tell you what they wore. Part of that was probably the rum. But yeah.

Yep. I, you know, it’s so funny cause like the older I’m getting, the more I can’t take that much caffeine. I’m like always quality controlling and just like tasting, making sure it tastes good. But you know, past 10 o’clock, like you 10 in the morning, you will not see me be drinking too much coffee after that. It’s kind of like, it’s like I’m done.

I am old as fuck now too. Like I stopped drinking coffee at 9 a.m. and I find I sleep better and I find that that is the oldest person thing I’ve said in a long time but

It makes a difference. It really does. And it’s funny because I feel like that’s a lot of us, like we drink coffee, but we’re a lot of it’s to learn and grow the science of how to like the methodology of brewing and, and the water and the temp and, you know, minerals and all of these different things and grind settings. and so I think

For the most part, that’s what makes it really fun for us too, is just trying to like dial in a really good new bag of beans. But like after that first cup, you’re like, we’re good.

Speaker 1 (11:17.464)

We’re good. We did this. We’re good.

We did it, like no more coffee. Like that was it.

Kayla, I was so excited to talk to you. It’s been probably, it’s been almost 10 years. And I was so excited. We were so excited to chat. We kind of forgot that we’re talking like also to each other, but for an audience, like who are you?

Yeah, yeah, we should probably let people know.

Yes, yes, of course. This is my friend Kayla. I’ll let her introduce herself. She clearly likes coffee, if you haven’t picked that up so far.

Speaker 2 (11:49.71)

Yeah, my name is Kayla and I’m from Santa Fe, New Mexico. I love coffee and I work at a local coffee shop. We actually have three locations. So it’s not just it’s it’s a lot.

I remember one when I lived there. Have they expanded?

Well, I think in 2017 they had a second location and that was. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So that just must’ve opened. I wasn’t with them yet. I got with them in 2020. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was like right when things were almost getting ready to open. So I guess it was like leading into 2021. It was like 2020, mid 2020. So yeah.

Not when I left, so…

Speaker 1 (12:25.943)

So like, we’re

Speaker 2 (12:40.536)

But yeah, so I do coffee.

Maybe you met working at Coyote Cantina. Yeah, you have the dubious honor of being one of the only people invited to my wedding. So congratulations to that.

Yes, we…

Speaker 2 (12:58.286)

So honored, so honored. You have no idea. think about it. I think about it often, actually. And it’s great because I’ve actually run into Chris at Susan’s and that’s when, you know, I text you because I didn’t have your contact anymore. And so it was really great to reconnect.

Yeah, Andrew’s not just disappeared anymore, he’s coming back around.

I was wondering, do you always pop in my head and I’m like, I hope he’s doing well.

Yeah. So, yeah. So, so just to share that story again, because it is a fun story. I always said I would never get married and I truly believed that. And then I met my wife and then about two months in, we decided we were going to elope and we, we needed a witness. She had one and I had one that I had to get. So I called you that day.

Yeah, you gave me like an hour notice.

Speaker 1 (13:55.982)

I You were on the schedule too for Coyote. So I said, Hey, can you get the day off? You said maybe. And I was like, it’d be really cool because I’m getting married. need a witness. And I remember you were like, okay, I’ll get the day off.

yeah?

Speaker 2 (14:12.948)

Yeah, I was like, yeah, you got it. I’m there. Let’s do this.

Everyone thought I was crazy and it’s been almost 10 years.

I never just for the record thought you guys were crazy. I was so happy for you to meet your person and to be in love and it was really beautiful to see that relation like relationship grow quickly but also just beautiful.

Who are these people? Why do they like each What’s going on here?

I just remember being so happy for you because we were still working together. so it was really, remember, I mean, we at work, we would test each other on what you were learning.

Speaker 2 (14:55.894)

Yeah, I, you know, we were always, I think we were, it was really fun to get close to you at work and then outside of work as well.

No, and I always really respected because I always thought that coffee was, you know, an art that was really cool and something that I could see was something that people got really into and was very intricate. I just never really got into it. And kind of the same way that you like probably experience wine where it’s like it’s cool world to kind of like drinking it. But like, why would you dig into it for the next 10 years? You know, so it’s always cool hearing you talk about coffee and making coffees and

Like you were always just so into it.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, and same with you. mean, with liquor and wine, like your knowledge was really, it’s funny, I look back and it was so inspiring, because you took a job that most people would just consider a job, not necessarily a career. And, and you are so

studious and professional in what you were doing, that it was like, it inspired me to realize that I could do the same in coffee. A typical industry where, you you normally see people just doing, it’s like a dead end job, right? They’re just working to get to their next job. And I just remember one day waking up and being like, yeah, I’m in a study. Like, I’m gonna take this seriously. It’s not just a job anymore. Like, I’m gonna really make something out of this.

Speaker 1 (16:32.13)

Yeah. You know, you do kind of need some of those people like not everyone that works at iconic can be the director of training, right? But someone needs to be at least one person needs to be and why not you? Especially if that’s what you like. Yeah.

and then.

Speaker 2 (16:51.084)

Yeah, yeah, and it’s an interesting role. It’s something that I wasn’t necessarily, I think, intentionally wanting. So I’m trying to make the best of it and create it and form it into a position. And it’s like we’re really trying to get a systematic base of Iconic since we’re growing more and more as a roastery nationally and locally.

So it’s really fun to kind of mold it in the ways that I also want to see the program run and working with the owner to get there.

Yeah, that’s not it. It’s an interesting way you put it, though. It’s not the way you had wanted it necessarily. What were you looking for? Were you looking for another job possibly or?

Yeah, you know, that’s a great question. think I just wanted to be, I like, I wasn’t quite sure if I wanted to manage to be honest. I’ve done it before. It’s stressful. It’s hard. And it kind of takes away like the fun of what coffee is to me, which is making beverages and making like the most perfect latte every time or like steaming and just like this perfection behind the scenes of what it takes to be a good barista.

and so, and I think I was a good manager as well, but I, think my, I wanted to like more, learn more about coffee and the industry and like every little detail. So the roasting process, the packaging, you know, brewing daily operations for the cafe, like all of these things I wanted to my hands in.

Speaker 2 (18:41.558)

And so I think it was pretty right for me to move into this role. I also was just had developed a really good way of training people on bar. And so, you know, when I was offered this role, it wasn’t like, I remember my first instinct was like, who is this really a promotion or am I being demoted in some way? You know, then processing and being like, wait, actually, like I could develop this program that wasn’t

as structured previously to something more structured and more operational without me even. Which is exciting because as much as I want to be there for every single training, like I can’t. And there’s this part of me that like it’s so hard to let go to different trainers to like have them hold the same values I do when I train.

Or even worse, hope they do, yeah.

Exactly, exactly. So it’s really great because I do have a lot of good trainers that I’ve trained to do the same thing that I would like to do in my trainings. But of course, it’s not perfect. so it’s, you know, learning to delegate and to kind of like, trust that the system is going to work for you and they know what to do and they’re going to do a good job at it and be the role model.

to the next person that they’re training is like, it’s scary and it’s so hard, but it’s really rewarding when you do see people doing the job correctly. And you’re like, thank you.

Speaker 1 (20:21.326)

There’s a sense of like, that’s the only way, you know? Because there is a day like you can’t train every single person, especially iconic goes from three to 30 to 300 locations like game over, you know?

Exactly. Exactly. And like, so I think that’s my biggest thing I’m learning this year is like, letting go delegating, finding better teaching skills to work with different people that have different ways of thinking. So whether it’s ADHD, or autism, or anything along those spectrums, like

you know, some days I’m like training someone who I’m like, okay, I need you to focus. Like I need you to not do the seven things you want to do right now. Like, and we’re just going to do this one task, you know, but then there’s other people, like, I’m sure if I trained you, you would be like, got it. you want me to make a sunny bucket and here’s the instructions. You got it done. You know, where other people, I have to like walk them through it and, and both of them are not bad.

Or good. They’re just different and learning how to adapt yourself. Because at the end of the day, you have to remind yourself that everyone is teachable. And so having the patience to find what works for them. That’s what I do. That’s what I do.

100%.

Speaker 1 (21:52.206)

And so I did, I wasn’t quite sure you mentioned the management side. Are there management duties there too? Or is it that you’re only kind of the training like he’s scheduling and financial stuff or.

Yeah, so I did do that previously. We had different systems trying to figure out what works for Iconic moving into a bigger company. And so I was at one point this rotational manager, and then at one point I was just co-manager with another person. And then I kind of just helped assist as manager as well as doing my training and directing.

role and then recently it’s kind of been something new where I’m really trying to step off of that so I can focus on my department. Yeah. So I do help assist with the schedule in regards to scheduling any trainings that need to happen, making sure that they’re properly in there and nothing’s getting missed for anyone. And then after that, I kind of just help if they need like

I’ll help them anytime they need, but I try to stick to my role. So there’s no cross paths. And even right now, mean, everyone’s so sweet. They keep calling me in for help with management stuff. And it’s really hard for me to either A, help them, or B, be like, hey, can you actually call the manager line? Someone will help you.

I’m not a robot.

Speaker 2 (23:33.737)

Yeah, no, and it’s so it’s so hard because of course I don’t want to do that. But I also like me to find my proper boundary, like my boundaries for it, so that I’m not overextending one way or the other. And feeling resentful, you know, six months now being like, I feel like I’m doing everything. And it’s like, dude, you’re not you are and you’re not so like, you know, tame it tame it down.

No, the restaurant I run now, it has about 90 employees, if you count all the kids that like go to school and come back in the summers. And you know, people coming and going. And I’ve learned very quickly that I’m a very loving person. But there are certain things that I have people that take care of that. like, at every orientation for every new person, I’m like, if you ever have an issue with scheduling,

please come and talk to me or this person, just so you know. If it’s not that they’re like messing up your schedule, I’m going to ask you to go talk to the scheduling manager. But the doors open if there’s ever a real issue. But usually the messages I get are like, can I have Friday off? And like, I’m so sorry. do need to this other person.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And that’s kind of what it is. And it has been this year, because everyone’s like, wait, I’m confused. I thought you were like this and you’re not now. So it’s a transition for sure. And it’s funny, though. I feel the same way. Like, that’s literally me. I’m like, okay, awesome. Have you talked to the operation manager? you haven’t.

you feel comfortable talking to me? That’s really sweet. I appreciate it. But I am going to say like, can you just text them because they are taking over the schedule and you know, like it’s such a delicate way for me to be like, I want to help you. But if I do this, then I’m going to always overextend for you.

Speaker 1 (25:33.486)

without sale. Everyone knows by the time I go on vacation, I think, and then like one person will message me on vacation. Can I get this weekend off? It was like, when I get back, I’m like, I really hope you message them too. I’m so sorry, buddy. I know.

Exactly, exactly. I mean, even the other day I was off work at home and I kept getting this text and call and I was like, you know, I’ve already told her like seven times and I was like, you know, I’m just going to ignore it and hope that they went through the proper channels that they do know about. so and luckily they did end up calling the manager’s line and everything was fine. But I was like, man, it’s so hard because that was not easy for me to just like not help.

You know, and, but at some point I have to be like, hey, I’ve previously told you like to do this, you know.

for our last conversation. Yes.

Yes, exactly. it’s, you know, it’s great.

Speaker 1 (26:30.382)

Can you let me know, because I think, you know, I’ve never worked in a coffee shop. I’m guessing a lot of people listening had never either. How many trainings and like what kind of training schedule are you setting up? Like what are the trainings that you’re doing?

yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I won’t get like too crazy into it. But so the way the way we start everyone off is we someone you’ll start as bar back, which is doing dishes, bathroom and trash in the cafe. And so for your whole shift, you’re just resetting the cafe doing dishes. You’ll do bathrooms and trash. It’s one of the most important roles in the cafe.

Yeah, like what a

Speaker 2 (27:15.374)

because without clean dishes or cups, we can’t serve the customers. But it is also one of the hardest roles. has its own… It is, exactly. But you know, and when I train, I’m always like, okay, there’s a method, right? You pre-soak, you do this, you do this, moving with intention, because you’re on your feet all day. So you could be moving far back. Like you could be really overworking yourself with your…

And most think less too.

Speaker 2 (27:44.322)

going back and forth mindlessly without having intention. So they start off at Barback and then, and the main thing of that is like, can you follow basic instruction? Can you keep up with the rush? And it’s hard, it’s not an easy job, but it shows a sense of like urgency that they can have in the job. After that we’ll move into four, which is its own training. And that’s where you’re gonna learn how to be on register. So you’ll be,

the register person, you brew coffee and you will do doses. like, we dose out our coffee for every batch we brew and there’s a certain weight you have to have so that it’s consistent. And so they’ll do doses, reset condiment bar, white tables down, food, just all of that.

This might be like overly simplistic, but for me and my household or like someone in just like a restaurant that isn’t a high end coffee shop, would dosing be equivalent to is us grinding the beans for service since it’s a roughly similar amount kind of like what we get to in sophistication in dosing or is there like more to it than this?

I mean.

I’ve never heard of dosing, so I’m just like, me more.

Speaker 2 (29:05.678)

Yeah, you’re like what? Yeah, don’t know. Yes and no. It’s kind of like, you know, and behind the bar when you make your lemon-lime juice mix for your margaritas, it’s kind of like you’re batching it out for service. So it’s the same thing with dosing. Like right now we use like 129 grams of coffee beans that we dose out into little containers.

to brew coffee with. So every pot of coffee will have 129 grams in.

maybe maybe it’s like if I’m thinking the bar world, it’s like the jigger and it’s your ounce and a half. And like this is how you base the drink or maybe.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And same with tea, right? Like, so every teapot we have, it’s going to be five grams of loose leaf tea.

Yeah, sorry. I’ve never actually countered that phrase. I don’t think even talking to you. So I was just like, what is like, mean, I’m thinking dosing in Colorado. was like, what kind of coffee shop you in? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:10.286)

Well, I mean, you know, it’s our own little drug. It’s just helping yourself in service so that, you know, you stay consistent. Like when I worked at Echo, the other coffee shop I used to work at, when you would put your espresso into your portafilter, so your dry grounds into your portafilter to extract the espresso, we didn’t have a scale.

So you were kind of guessing every time you were dosing out your coffee, you were kind of just like, yeah, that’s a good mound. And know, and you would just go and iconic. We actually weigh out every single thing so that you’re always consistent and you’re also not losing in productivity or products in general, just, any waste. So like we measure it.

We measure our milks, we measure our syrups, we measure our coffee beans for a pour over or for a filtered coffee, we measure our espresso.

I’m guessing in terms of consistency that’s far superior.

Yes, yeah, yeah. And it’s funny because I’ve worked at other coffee shops where we didn’t do that, right? So I’m like now being in one that’s really efficient and and there’s a lot of coffee shops that are doing this now, but it’s really just crazy to see the growth of that from like 10 years ago to now where it’s like even just like by the point one, you know, gram, you’re like trying to take it out to make it exactly 18 grams. You’re like science, it has to be exact.

Speaker 1 (31:50.734)

Yeah.

So I can know where we go right or wrong.

It’s all bushing advice that any number times 365 is a large number, you know, you make one little error and you do it 365 times over the year. It’s going to be a big year. So I do well, just massively. So sorry. And dosing and then what else?

It adds up.

Speaker 2 (32:13.611)

No, no,

Speaker 2 (32:17.806)

Well, so, okay, so we’re doing floor training. So you learn how to do register. You have to brew coffee. You also give out pastries. There’s a whole role to that. And we always like to say the floor is the number one hardest role to do. And it’s so mentally draining, as we all know in the service industry, where you’re like,

customer, customer, customer. It’s like back to back to back. You know, there’s no time for you to like take a breath and be like, wow, that was a fun little rush. And like for us, we’re really busy, which is a blessing, but you know, you are mentally drained. And at the end of the day, we do work for tips. And so, you know, there’s, there’s only so much.

Acting, like to say acting. Actually, a better word would be performing in that role. Because it’s like, okay, you want to change the customer’s experience and you want it to make it the best experience they’ve ever had. So that when they have a bad experience one day at a different coffee shop, they could look back and be like, my gosh, wait, I remember that one time I went to Iconic and like, wow, customer service was amazing. The product was great. And the ambiance was phenomenal. Right?

That’s what I train for. I’m like training for this higher quality of service that you can’t really get everywhere. And so, and having a little bit of empathy and understanding when talking to people, you know, cause you might be angry that day cause your coffee spilled on your lap and now you’re having to go to Iconic to get a cup of coffee and…

You might be angry that there’s a line of four people in front of you and then you have to wait. you know, so by the time they get to the register, it’s like, you do not know where everyone, anyone’s at. you’re kind of just like, okay, I hope I can just do the best I can to provide the best service and have them walking away feeling better than they did before.

Speaker 1 (34:29.09)

Hmm. That’s the floor. That was like training in there or is there more?

The

Speaker 2 (34:35.054)

There’s many little trainings throughout that like learning how to do the whole thing outside of that and so once you could do those two jobs correctly and like efficiently and You know what you’re doing and I don’t have to see you blindly being like I don’t know what I’m doing next, know, and I’m like it’s been two months like There’s so much to do. So, you know once they get to this place then they’ll get barista trained

The real show, yes.

The real show. And it’s fun because our trainings are so scientific into the T and very detailed and a little strict. I think I really like want to see everyone be perfect as a barista. I’m like training them good habits, trying to break bad habits, teaching them how to keep a clean bar.

which would help it help you keep a clean mind. Bar flow. Yes, exactly. Bar flow, speed, consistency. I always like to, in my trainings, I’ll tell them, you know, you’re, you’re what’s the equivalent to a catcher in baseball. You’re the only person on the whole field that can see everything. So you need to be able to, you need to be able to run your ship well enough to keep

You would hope, yes.

Speaker 1 (36:00.632)

You’re you

Speaker 2 (36:06.784)

afloat. you know, if you see your bar back struggling, and your floor person’s just like, hanging out at the register doing nothing, you know, that’s a good time to be like, Hey, I need you to go help so and so back there, even if it’s for five minutes, and then come back up, you know, and so or seeing that your floor person struggling, and you need to call your bar back to come help run food, because we’re, we’re, kind of hitting a big rush. And so knowing how to direct your team so that

even in the daily chaos of service industry, you can still run efficiently. And so, yeah, there’s a lot of extensive trainings. And not only that, but we have three different locations. So I have to retrain to an extent at three different locations, same concepts, same theory, but just different.

layout, right? So you’re like relearning like, okay, wait, the sugar’s over here, over here, but over there, it’s down here, you know, and, so you’re like teaching them all of that. And morning and night, which are two different services. So it’s, it’s a lot of training. It’s probably the most training I’ve ever seen in any industry.

Do you have all of this written down or how do you organize all this?

Yeah, that’s a great question. So what I’ve been working on is I have a lot of lists, laminated lists around the cafes. opening, I’ll have an opening floor list, an opening barista list, a closing floor list, and a closing barista list. then bar back’s pretty intuitive. We do have a list that we’ll give them on their first day.

Speaker 1 (37:54.845)

glasses.

once you get the job done, you’re like, okay, this is the job I just do dishes. It’s very repetitive. So yeah, and then I’ll have that at all three locations. And then now I’m in the process of training trainers on training baristas. So I’m like training my trainers, which is great, because for the longest time, I’ve been the only barista trainer. So it’s great to like delegate that a little bit away and

And now I’m trying to create a system on how to train trainers as well. So not just like training like regular staff. It’s like, how do you train them to be where you’re at? And like, what were your struggles?

Hmm.

We we use we have a class and we call it train the trainer and It’s not the most clever name, but it works

Speaker 2 (38:52.553)

It’s perfect. It’s perfect. I love it.

But we actually make them come in the day off for a couple hours and run through the training. It’s like half how to train and then half refresher slash looking over the study guides to make sure there’s no surprises because we do all right. But right. Yeah. Just making sure that people are actually doing stuff. Yeah.

Exactly. You know, it’s so crazy. We have so many tools. I will say the owner is very proactive in all of these things. we actually have you ever heard of rice videos? I think it’s now

Speaker 2 (39:34.794)

Yeah, so it’s a platform where you can create a test or videos that you upload and you could share that with your staff. So we do also have an introduction video that’s about two hours and it describes all of the roles that we have. And so I look at all of that before they start their first shift to make sure they’ve done the videos and they know what they’re getting into.

My first thought was, I pictured a video with you like, hi, my name is Kayla. This is what coffee is.

Yes. Well, you know, what’s funny is that I’m actually part of my program is to start developing video trainings for not just wholesale or like our staff, but also for wholesale clients. So if you are a wholesale client with Iconic Coffee Roasters, you get us, you can have this free subscription, which would be me and videos of coffee of all sites, all types. So it could be training your staff.

cool.

Speaker 2 (40:41.112)

So say if you open up your own coffee shop, use our coffee beans and you’re working with us, you can have your videos, your staff watch the videos that I’ve created to help even train in your cafe.

That’s cool.

So it’s exciting. It’s in the process. I’ve been working on some scripts and different videos for different things. Like even as a customer, like say you are like, hey, Kayla, I want to know how to make a V60 pour over. I just got my first equipment. I’m excited. Like, do you have any recommendations or class? And I could be like, yeah, here’s this video. Go check it out. Like, that’s cool.

I could teach you just off this. that’s what I’m working on right now. But it’s a big project. it’s exciting, but it’s…

Now until 2035, yes.

Speaker 2 (41:40.778)

That’s how I feel sometimes. like, okay, maybe next year we could do this. So I don’t know. Yeah. that’s training and Iconic. It’s so extensive. I want to go into more details, but it’s like, you know, we give them sometimes too much information, which could be really bad.

The fire hose method, yes.

Exactly. We like to call like in trainings, we like to talk about filling the cup, like overfilling the cup. And that’s, you know, these people’s brains, where I’m like, all right, here’s every detail you can ever have. And they’re just like, Yeah, I’m not gonna remember that tomorrow. Like, you just that’s like the 50 things teach taught me today, you know, so. Yeah, yeah. So it’s

You know what was really striking me from this conversation that I’m really happy about? What? You know, I, I’m just listening to you talk and it sounds like you are just a lot. I don’t think you ever not happy, but it sounds like you’re a lot happier than I remember you. Like, like you’re in a good spot. Just, yeah. Yeah. So it does. It really does warm my heart to hear that to say, know,

Thank you. Yeah, I honestly, it’s, everything I’ve worked for and it’s really exciting, but I am, you know, the older I’m getting, the more I am questioning whether I’m going to stay in the industry or not due to personal goals and financial goals. So it’s, it is still a struggle and I feel like I’m really happy, but I’m also understanding there’s more to life than working.

Speaker 1 (43:11.906)

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:22.232)

Sure.

And even passions. so I’m, you know, like the goals of buying a house and having a family or a little more stability that I think I’m craving. And so, and as a woman getting older, it’s like, really trying to decide if I do want to have a family. And so I think that’s

Yeah.

That’s my thought process right now and my biggest struggles is like, can this job work? And is it a future career where it’s really stable for me or, you know, do I need to think of different endeavors to get me to where I want to go?

You you were speaking my language, yeah Like anyone who’s listened to this far in the podcast like they can remember so I started all this the first episode I talked and you know, this all came from a Facebook post Where I put out there I was like I’ve become obsessed with this one question Can you actually be happy working in the restaurant industry? long-term I Think the answer is yes but I

Speaker 2 (44:13.911)

Okay.

Speaker 2 (44:39.15)

Thanks.

It’s not yes for everyone. And I think for some people that I’ve met, it’s like, hell no.

Yeah, yeah. It’s such an interesting thing because I think I could do it long term. Like I think I could be one of those people who are like 10 years down the line and I surprise myself with the lack of hate I have for it. Like for better or worse it feels like I’m just like married to this.

huh. Yeah, it’s still here.

Speaker 2 (45:13.25)

You know, even my competitors that I compete with nationally for latte art, like every, after every performance, we’re always like, why do we do this to ourselves? Like, why do we love to do this?

Why does a hitchhiker do this competition?

Like, why did I do this? Yeah, so I, you know, I, it comes in waves. Some days I come home and I’m like, I’m over it. I’m done. Like, what am I doing? But I think the bigger thing is that it’s an industry that we’re used to that that isn’t consistent, or ever been shown to me personally, that it could be a career. You know, like most

Like we know some people like Rich, you know, who has worked in service industry. yeah. You know, and, like have made careers out of it and have done really well. But I’ve always wondered if like they’ve always known intentionally, this was the success they were going to get out of their career, or is it like a blind love that you’re like, maybe.

for so long we’re crit

Speaker 1 (46:19.256)

Yeah.

maybe this could be and how much trust do you put in that where you’re like, okay, should I give another 10 years to this or do I need to like throw in the flag and be like, I can’t.

Have you ever read any Oliver Berkman despite any chance?

I don’t believe so.

If not, I definitely highly recommend it. He wrote a couple of books, uh, 4,000 hours time management or no 4,000 weeks time management for mortals is his main one, but he’s super British. He, his life advice is very blunt, straightforward, kind of uplifting, but a little depressing, which makes me think he tells it like it is. He has one phrase that I have, it’s stuck in my head. I repeat it to myself all the time. It’s

Speaker 1 (47:07.252)

In what ways have you yet to accept that you are who you are, not who you hope to be? And it’s a question that I still rattles around in my brain every once in a while. When I think like, should I be in the restaurant industry? Should I not? And it sounds like you with the barista, like that’s always the thing that I’ve come back to. It’s like, is it that I think I should be someone else? This is just who I am. There’s nothing bad with it.

Like we made careers with it. We’ve made a lot of them. I love talking to you. I might actually ask you to come back on if you were cool with it because we had some technical difficulties. I definitely promised I’d be done at eight to and it is a little later.

Yeah, but like, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:55.214)

Yeah, yeah. let’s, should I, maybe I can, we could schedule something again.

Yeah, let’s just we’ll make it. You’ll be the first part to ever because, I haven’t talked to you in so long. mean, I know we didn’t talk about Coyote. We didn’t talk about all sorts of things. I’ll throw rich died like what the hell is going on in Santa Fe?

It’s so exciting. I want to pick a brain more.

Speaker 2 (48:21.902)

I it is. Yeah, it’s. I would love to catch you up from.

Yeah, let’s touch base. And yeah, and I’ve got so I’ve been gone this whole weekend. Part of the reason I told him I’d get off earlier. Totally. I was in Oklahoma City visiting my brother and he entered a competition. And so like, I don’t know the randomest thing, but I’ve been out of town drinking mead with all these like brewers. Like, it’s it’s been a weird week, but.

Yeah. Yeah. No, go be with your wife. Yes, we will catch up. Part two. I’m stoked. You too, Andrew. Tell her I say hi. I will. Okay, bye.

We’re going to do that.

It was a pleasure talking to you though.

Speaker 1 (49:12.984)

Thank you again for listening. That’s the end of our show today. My name’s Andrew, this is Serves You Right. If you haven’t, please subscribe to the show. Everyone who subscribes helps the show grow and get cooler guests on, and it sure does mean a lot to me. We put out new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday. We’ll see you then, thanks.