Link to Episode HERE.

What do pharmacy school, cookbooks, and Polynesian pop culture have in common?

Today’s guest, Tiki Lindy, connects those dots and a dozen more. From her early days bartending in the South to becoming one of the leading voices in the modern Tiki scene, Lindy has carved out a space all her own: equal parts chef, scholar, and cocktail alchemist.

We talk Tiki, not the Instagram hashtag, but the messy, misunderstood, intoxicating cultural wave that blends anthropology, rum, escapism, and spice. She’s a cookbook author, rum nerd, science geek, and a deep thinker.

Expect to learn:

• Why “Tiki” drinks aren’t what you think they are, they’re so much more
• How those Dan Dan noodles helped inspire a cookbook
• The right way to introduce whiskey drinkers to rum
• • Whether or not a hot dog is a sandwich (yes, seriously)
  Some Links Mentioned in the episode:
  • ⁠Saturn Cocktail⁠. Try not to have too many!
  • ⁠Trader Vic’s⁠
  • ⁠Navy Strength⁠
  • ⁠Nutcracker Old Fashioned⁠
  • ⁠Arizona Tiki Oasis⁠
  • ⁠Agiorgitiko Wine⁠
  • Link to her ⁠website⁠, where you can find all her books.

And yes, we talk about that delicious looking Old Fashioned, and why she keeps her best recipes close to the chest…

This episode is a deep dive for anyone who’s ever poured a drink, geeked out on ingredients, or just wanted to know how the Tiki world actually works.

Service starts now.

I talk to people in and around the service industry space, and people that I wish I could have heard from when I was coming up in restaurants. Altogether I am trying to make sense of this wild, beautiful mess of a life, and help others that are feeling similarly confused and/or lost. You can find more of my work at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠my blog⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and all my social links are at the bottom of that page.

Classic Episodes You May Like:

-#3:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠My 1st and Most Powerful Conversation with Shane Alexander⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

As always, I’m just here taking notes, trying to figure out what it all means.

Cheers

 All right. So today I have Lindy here with me. So welcome on. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah, of course. So if I could, you do so many different things and have done so many different things. What what is the kind of common thread that ties together your whole body of work? And can you tell the listener kind of what you do? Yes, ties together. Well, I think a love for very nerdy geeky level of conversation is actually ties it all together, the quest for knowledge, right? So I think what also ties together is I, I got into bartending and the food industry really early on, like really young as as young as one can legally get into it. And so but you know, I grew up in the south. And there wasn’t a cocktail culture really there. There wasn’t even a hot cuisine, so to speak, you know, in the first sushi restaurant hit my town, that was a big deal. So I knew there were bigger and better things out there. So before I left the south, I was already kind of experimenting with what I could get my hands on, just from watching things like PBS or, you know, cooking shows or travel shows. Then flash forward when I moved to California, in my 20s, it was kind of like, Oh, my gosh, it was a personal renaissance to be exposed the craft cocktail scene to the wine industry, to all these different multicultural food aspects. So my kind of love and passion for the hospitality industry continue that just kind of morphed from being a job where I was, you know, working my way through college to being something else of passion. Sure, sure. Now, it sounds like me and you have a very similar past. So I fell into a job as a bar back in college and I just kept doing it over and over again. Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I mean, there were there were times when you know, I couldn’t work in hospitality because my other you know, interests or schooling kind of prohibited, but I always came back to it in one, one form or fashion. But remind me, you went to school, it was you were a pharmacist or? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was a doctor of pharmacy. So tightening the guy should be Dr. Tiki Lindy, I suppose. Okay, we can call you Dr. Tiki Lindy. There’s too many people that use the moniker doctor in the Tiki world, I think there’s there’s a lot of doc. So and so as you know, I think I’m a steer clear of that commingling. Fine, just being Tiki Lindy fair enough. Yeah, that’s that is no joke, though. So I’m guessing, gosh, what is that 10 years of schooling or? It’s a total of eight years between undergraduate and graduate school. But you know, it’s it is a I joke, and I say it’s all between bartending and pharmacy, it’s all better living through chemistry. There, yeah, it is a shockingly high amount of times I pull in some of the science information from my graduate schooling, my science schooling into the talks I give on the bartending, well, specifically on the cocktail world, then and food, like there’s a lot of science there is a lot of science behind taste and combining chemicals and, you know, do everything from making clear ice to preserving things, it’s all one form of science or another. For sure. Yeah. So, you know, you kind of mentioned that book, so I wanted to go down this rabbit hole if I could. So you have several books. But one of the things that really impressed me is, you know, it’s not just Tiki cocktails, you’re also Tiki cuisine. And definitely an area that is wildly underrepresented. Yeah, yeah, actually why I wrote those. So at the time. So yeah, I brought my books. So yeah, my first book was is the field guide. I don’t know if it’s backwards for your audience members. Oh, no, that’s perfect. That’s perfect. So yeah, the field guide to poop is tidbits and exotic provisions. That was my first book. And I started it in 2018. So and the research went years before that. But I when I entered, I kind of got known in Tiki and I was really into the Tiki cocktail world. There was already a lot of books out there that published the same recipes and it was really all building off of one person, Jeff Beach Bumbary’s research. I didn’t want to be another person to just rob his work and make another book out of it. But what I noticed is that no one was really paying attention to this 70 year running cuisine that was being served at Tiki restaurants. And so I wanted to see the lens of those recipes through a modern pantry. So for example, the food that was being made back in the 30s and 40s was putting things like cream of mushroom soup. You know, not exactly a simpler time. Right. Not exactly your classic Indonesian ingredient or your classic. You know, so I was like, that’s the area that I really wanted to do the research was how can we bring things back to whatever their origin recipes were. But I needed a way to package them together because these recipes in the Tiki world span a lot of different cultures. So Hawaiian, the Caribbean, Mandarin Chinese food. So I was like, how do I put all these disparate regions together into one book? And I didn’t really want to call it a Tiki cookbook. I didn’t want to do that. I didn’t want to take something that was already kind of a mismatch by identities. So I created this book as an adventure cookbook. So it has this storyline that’s kind of ambiguously set back in the past, but you don’t know how far in the past. And it’s basically these explorers traveling around and their travel logs and the food they’re being exposed to in the cultures. So yeah, it’s kind of this fictitional journal. The recipes are are strident there. And I had so much research in the first book that so well, that I did the second book on all the other kind of island culture food, which is the much I didn’t grab that one. That’s my compendium has the same kind of cover, but it’s the the compendium versus the field guides. Yeah, all these are available on your website, which we will link in the show notes just so listening. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So I was gonna ask, like, is there a favorite moment or a favorite recipe you have in there, or something that really stands out like? Oh, it’s so hard. It’s like asking you know what your favorite child is in a way. Has a span such a diverse range of cultures? I kind of have favorites. And I my my poor family, while I shouldn’t say poor, I think we all gained weight during the process of making those books as I kept on making, you know, trying them out. But you know, they were they were my test subject, my family was my test subjects. So they have their favorites, for sure. But the one I think the kind of the moment where I realized I was doing something magical was my Dan Dan noodles recipe. Dan Dan. Can you describe those for me? So yeah, so Dan Dan noodles. They classically use like a Chinese egg style noodles. So kind of like what most people would think that ramen like instant ramen noodles would look would look like but fresh but like a fresh, more yellow type of noodles. So it’s that type of noodle. But it has true szechuan peppercorns would kind of have like a numbing heat to them. And it has like a ground pork and has a sesame paste in it has a lot of complex flavors. And every time I had had Dan Dan noodles at Tiki restaurant, they kind of were flat, like they were very Americanized. The flavor wasn’t there. I did the research on this this traditional szechuan recipe for Dan Dan noodles. And when I ate it, it was just like the light bulb went off. And that gave me I was like, this is why I’m making this book. Yeah, I will have to warn you, I am a couple hours forward from you time wise and closer to dinner. So Oh, no, I’m I’m like, Oh, my, that sounds awesome. Very, they’re really warm and nourishing. So yeah, that’s definitely people tell me oftentimes that have my book they’re like, yeah, it’s one of my favorite recipes. And, you know, I was going to ask you, you know, getting out there writing a book is a big task. But what was it that inspired you like, have you always wanted to write a book? Or was this something that just you saw an opportunity and you pounced or? I think it was more that I think I saw opportunity and pounced I had never really thought of writing a book. Now, ironically, my father, my late father, he he he had authored a book, but it was on something so incredibly boring. He was a professor of accounting in the university. And he had wrote like an accounting textbook. And so I think I had an aversion to ever considering the fact I would write something. I didn’t want to be in that same category of boring textbook. balancing balancing your budget for fun sort of thing. Right. But no, I just kind of it kind of it kind of came to a life of its own. I had always saved my recipes over the years. But they never really congealed to anything. And so this kind of gave me purpose to actually do something with recipes. Oh, that’s cool. That’s really cool. And then the start of the book, I saw it was a Kickstarter, correct? Yeah, yeah, the first one I did Kickstarter. Yeah. Yeah, I think something crazy like 24 hours, it was funded or something great. Yes, very quickly. I was floored. I mean, I knew there was nothing like it out there. And I knew the Tiki community was was large. But yeah, it was such a great response. Yeah, no, that’s awesome. I don’t think we really explored. So I was gonna circle back and ask again, Tiki, what got you into Tiki? You know, is it one moment a drink a bar like? Yeah, well, there’s there’s the long story and then there’s the shorter story, I’m gonna try to hit the sweet spot in the middle. So again, you know, having been a bartender in the past, and in an area that was kind of devoid of real craft cocktail culture. So I grew up in Arkansas, and there’s proximity to good whiskeys. So my first foray into kind of the spirit world was way more bourbon and whiskey. I moved to California and I got really into wine. So if you think about wine, it’s an aged it’s maybe not a spirit, but it’s an aged alcoholic product, right? So my knowledge of aged spirits and things like wine, whiskey, bourbon, Scotch was really good. And that’s kind of with a wheelhouse that I was in. And it was when I like a lot of people, I went to Disneyland for the first time and went to the enchanted tiki room was like, what is you know, what is this? What you know, what is this tiki thing? And then the first time I went into Trader Vicks and Emeryville in California, which is you know, one of the historic tiki bar, then it was like, okay, clear this tiki thing is more than just this one one off. So the more I did research into it, the more I kind of like, which is I was like, Oh, there’s this whole culture and then subcultures. And I was really fascinated by it. And that’s why I really got more into rum. The rum I had been exposed to in college was like most of us a Bacardi, the things we regret. Yes. Yes, Captain Morgan, you know, things that was a utilitarian, let me just put that. So yeah, so I went down the nerdy path of exploring rums and the craft cocktails of 30s, 40s and 50s. And then I was like, Yeah, this is awesome. I love this escapism. I love this community. I love this use of fresh ingredients and tropical ingredients. Sam. No, you know, if we can actually pull that thread for a few seconds. I don’t think I really mentioned when we first talked. So I’m a bartender by trade who ended up now I’m in management general manager of a restaurant. But I love rum and I love introducing people to new rums. And I feel like, you know, drinking culture in America is so heavily steeped in either just wine or whiskey. And some of the people right off rum as that utilitarian, I think was a great adjective for that. Yes. Yes. And you know what I mean, to get drunk, a quick way to get drunk. So I was going to ask, do you have any favorite rums or were there any like particular rums or drinks with rum that you would introduce people to new styles? Or that’s really broad question. But it is a very broad question. Actually, there’s a couple ways. So people who are either new to Tiki era cocktails or new to rum, I kind of have an approach a couple of different ways. So in the in the non rum aspect, when people like, Oh, I don’t like Tiki drinks, they’re either too sweet, or you know, I don’t like rum. So my my introduction for those folks tend to be in non rum Tiki era drinks. So for example, the Saturn, which is an excellent gin drink, and it’s served shaken and then up. So it’s very elegant. It looks like something that they would order like a gin drink that they would order at a fancy bar, and it’s not going to have any of those characteristics that they automatically think they despise. That’s kind of one direction. I also for people like, Oh, I don’t drink rum. What do you drink? Oh, I drink whiskey. I’m like, Okay, that there are the easiest people to sell on rum, because you just have to have the right rum. So most rums are are very dry. So they there’s not added sugar. There may be very, very, very small amounts by some brands in order to kind of balance kind of like they do with wine. But since rums are aged in ex bourbon barrels, ex whiskey barrels, ex sherry barrels, what you’re tasting, like to think about whiskey, whiskey is just vodka that’s been aged in the barrel. I mean, just still beer. But you know, it’s it’s basically something that comes out clear from the still. And then that flavor is coming out of the barrel. And it’s the same with rum, you’re just starting with cane. And so when people like, Well, I like whiskey, but I don’t like rum, I just tell them they haven’t had the right rum. So I don’t have a favorite rum. I love the different characteristics of so many, whether it’s like an agricultural rum from Martinique, or a dimmer rum, which just has like to social luscious flavors, Barbados from and of course, Jamaican has that funky deep notes that are such a great structure into a cocktail. So I like them all. Sure. No, and I like as you were talking there, I’m thinking in my head, something I never thought before, but I think whiskey drinkers are good, like analogy to the world of rum, because only in the world of whiskey, do you get that sort of differentiation where you have the the bourbons of the rise or the Scotches or the Japanese where rum, you have so many different islands and so many different countries that you actually have a whole range to kind of play with. Yeah, yeah. I mean, aside from the areas that are very French dominated, there really isn’t the type of regulation and rum that there is in whiskey. So I think a lot of it is education of the American public on that aspect. Like sure, if you’re going to get an American rum, there could be wide variation of quality and flavor. But if you’re looking to very specific areas, they are like places in the Caribbean, they’re way more regulated to be able to call a dimmer rum, or Jamaican rum, or an agricultural rum, there’s a lot more constraints. And so you’re more likely to get the same kind of quality that you would out of a whiskey or a bourbon. Yeah, for sure. And then correct me if I’m wrong, one of the one of your books is cocktail book two, correct? Yeah. So that’s the guide to tropical lixirs and exotic provisions, or exotic lixirs, sorry. And that is just came out recently. So yeah, and it’s a fun cocktail book. So it still keeps that same, it keeps the same I’m like trying to see if I can show this and they’re still getting good, and getting good resolution. But it starts with some instructional, like the right kind of glassware to have the right kind of tools to have. And then it gets into some storylines and the recipes themselves. And there’s some great color photography of the cocktails and it kind of follows like a passport style. So yeah, I wanted this again, to be fun. And I also didn’t want to republish other people’s recipes. So this is genuinely a collection of 10 years of my own recipes that I’ve come up with. So all some of them are Tiki are inspired, but some of them are more classic cocktail riffs. So there’s something for everyone in it. It’s really fun. Well, that’s that’s awesome. Yeah, because you kind of touched on another thing that I did want to ask you about. Tiki is such a, you know, steeped kind of in tradition, even though the tradition may be like 50 years old, right? What, you know, a lot of the things that I saw online about you are describing as a Tiki modernist. Right? I was like, how do those two things get juxtaposed? How does that? Doesn’t it seem almost like an oxymoron, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that’s so that is the challenge. And that’s something I’m kind of, I guess you could say controversial in a way for being in the Tiki world, because, you know, how do you define what a Tiki cocktail is? And if you start that was one of the questions I was going to ask you to. Yeah. So, so you have to choose this path. It’s the pathway I try to lead people down is okay. So does it mean it was served during certain like eras? Like, okay, well, we’ve got, you know, cocktails outside of the Tiki world that was served in this area. So we know it’s not era specific. Is it certain people specific? Is it only the recipes of Trader Vic and Don the Beachcomber? So if so, then anybody else’s recipes would be excluded from being a Tiki drink. Is it, does it have to have rum in it? Well, if we’re saying it has, you know, Trader, both Trader Vic, I think Bergeron and Don Beach, Don the Beachcomber used other spirits other than rum and lots of their cocktails, you know, does it have to be from one geographic area? Well, that gets, you know, we’ve got the Caribbean, we’ve got Hawaii, we’ve got Micronesia, Melanesia, Polynesia, you know, so you start trying to define Tiki and nothing really one thing sticks. But yet we have this innate sense of what separates a tropical cocktail from a Tiki era cocktail. So you’ll hear me say, you probably hear me say Tiki era cocktail and not Tiki cocktail because I do not believe there’s such thing as a Tiki cocktail. Okay. There are cocktails that came about in the late 1930s through the 1950s driven by these two kind of pioneers in this escapism world that brought these Tiki bar iconic things in. But if you’re stuck just making these people’s recipes in perpetuity, what’s the draw? You have no room for creativity, you have no room to take modern ingredients and reinvent some of the flavor profiles. And so I think that’s what people call me a Tiki modernist is the things that we have available now are different than what they had them and vice versa. So I tried to reinvent some of those flavor profiles through the lens of what we have currently available. I see. Okay. So that would make you a Tiki era cocktail enthusiast. Yes, exactly. I want to watch my words very carefully here. Yeah, yeah, you know, if you can’t talk about Tiki without talking about the, you know, the difference between cultural misappropriation and cultural appreciation. And it is a is a tough line to toe. And I think education is the main thing that goes behind that like understanding that the term Tiki is almost like a religious term, you know, like the Maori culture. So that’s also why I don’t say like a Tiki cocktail unless you see like a deity from New Zealand holding a cocktail. So I tried to tread very lightly there understanding that when we talk about Tiki culture in the United States, it is something completely different from Polynesian. It is its own Americanized, Disney eyes, Hollywood eyes, combination of all these different exotic cultures. And when you understand that Tiki culture, then you can understand your trend, you’re not stepping real again to the authenticity of specific island cultures. Hmm. Okay. I think I think I can follow that. I think that answers my question. It does kind of remind me, do you know that the whole, I’m gonna butcher, I can’t remember the Supreme Court justice that said it. But there’s a Supreme Court case where they were ruling on what obscenity or profanity or pornography was. The Supreme Court justice says, I know it when I see it. And that’s kind of what I was reminded of Tiki. Like, yeah. Right. Well, that’s a whole nother. There’s this whole, I used to say discussion group or about what makes a Tiki bar a Tiki bar. And you know, does it have to have fish floats? Does it have to have fetching? Does it have to have a Tiki statue? You know, what makes a Tiki bar Tiki bar? And that becomes one of those is a hot dog a sandwich. Have you ever heard that? No, but that’s a good, that’s a good analogy, actually. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that’s the whole like, if you ever want to just annoy your friends, you ask them if a hot dog is sandwich and then debate that through. So it’s a similar like there is actually not a right or wrong answer. But people, most people would say they’ll know it’s a Tiki bar when they see it. Yeah. But on the other side of that, if I was to argue for the hot dog, if we were in just a normal bar, and you were behind the bar making some amazing Tiki air stuff, style cocktails, I probably say this is a great Tiki environment, even though the decoration and decor did not match what was going on. And you know, some of the top award winning bars in the nation have never claimed themselves to be a Tiki bar. So one in particular, so Navy strength in Seattle, very a claim bar, they never call themselves a Tiki bar. But their cocktails have very much taken influences from the Caribbean and are have been very rum focused, but people labeled them as a Tiki bar and they never did. So it’s a very interesting scenario. For sure. Yeah. If you had a choice, if you could only cocktails or only of the food side, which would you have chosen? Or is that a horror like you can’t do one without the other? Oh, gosh, I know. I mean, I think I think I would have to say the food side over cocktails. I think everyone can deal deal with how dog. Everyone can survive without a drink. No one can survive without food. I am this baby Blasphemous in the cock or in the in the cocktail world, but I’m a foodie first. I think you can’t really be truly into cocktails without kind of also being a foodie. I mean, it is it is food ingredients that go into it. So I’m definitely a foodie. Well, yeah, it should be edible food ingredients that go into it. If you’re if you were doing the right way. Yes. I did want to ask you one thing that I as I was looking through some of your posts on Instagram, I saw you had a drink on there called the Nutcracker Old Fashion. And I like, where can I find that recipe? That looks so good. Depending on how I’m not even sure I remember what is in that. But yeah, often so oftentimes my I will post sometimes I will post recipes in my Instagram off more often the stories so that they’re fleeting. And not often in the posts themselves like in the actual posts. But yeah, I’m sure you know, hit me up afterwards and I’ll dig up somewhere. Yeah, yeah, but the best way for people to get my other than my cocktail book. I do a lot of presentations at primarily Tiki events. So Tiki Oasis in Arizona, there’s another one in San Diego, you know, Haley’s in Atlanta, Georgia each year. So I’m oftentimes an invited speaker. And those cocktail seminars I provide recipes for the cocktails I’m talking about and presenting. So that’s one way folks that’s probably the best way. Yeah, it’s probably the best way but also in social media is just you know, I, I do keep a lot of that stuff very close close to me. Sure, sure. I mean, yeah, you work hard for it. They it looks delicious. I’m sure it tasted just as good. Just to be clear for everyone listening to several of the drinks did look good. That was just the one that I saw. And I was like, I have to see if I can get this recipe. I’m sure I can dig it up for you. So my wife is a Russian and the joke with Russians is Americans have a sweet tooth and they have 32. So it just looks like the sort of thing I can make for her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I’m glad you mentioned, you know, doing doing your presentations because I did want to ask you, I saw I think one of the more recent ones was a whole one on spice. Right. And what is it like to give a whole presentation about just spice? I think it was Jamaican spice? Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, for me, it’s great. I guess my audience likes it too. So I have been I’ve been given kind of the moniker of the Alton Brown of the cocktail world because I tend to roll very, very sciency in my presentation. So I’m not just up there talking about my opinions. I’m actually delving into some of the food anthropology and and the science that goes behind it. And people tend to just like eat it up. They love it. They come for that nerdiness. So yeah, for me, it’s easy to talk for an hour about spices. But in the context of like the cocktail world, there’s clear correlation. You may have heard the term what grows together goes together. Have you heard that term? There’s, you know, I have definitely tested that. There’s always hold true. But for the most part, it does. And especially for things that when you’re talking about the depth of flavors in Jamaican rums, they tend to refer to some of the spice notes and they happen to be spices that also grow in Jamaica. So cinnamon, all spice, nut mag, mace, like these types of things all kind of grow and do well in Jamaica. And so you not only do you find those notes in some of the rums, but in terms of ingredient to pair them with or kind of natural pairings. So I kind of like, you know, when to kind of the again, the cultural anthropology where these spices come from and how they get to where they went to, how do you mix with them? How do you make syrup? I also talked about how you can make syrup and, you know, some tinctures with some of those. So yeah, it’s been I’m able to kind of take a topic like that and go in a lot of different directions. Sure. Yeah. Well, actually, that that did remind me of a question I wanted to ask you about your cocktail book. If you were to rate it on ease of execution for like the average at home person, like, I’ve definitely gotten books where it’s like, five or six drinks have a compound like vanilla, like passion fruit syrup, but like, and then I’ve definitely got the other side where it’s just all classic. So where, where do you fall in that kind of problem? So I intentionally try to make it approachable. When there is something that you can’t commercially get, I’ve provided the recipe to make it. And they’re not things that are too obscure. So I tried to approach it from, Okay, who is most my audience, Americans, most likely. And so what’s the American pantry, what’s available, some things you may have to go to like a Mexican market or an Asian market to get the ingredients, but they’re fairly widely available. And the ones that are a little more obscure, there’s just a lot fewer those recipes in the book so that people wouldn’t be put off by it. So, you know, if we’re talking like a scale of one to five, if one being like your very entry level bartender and five being you know, people who are clarifying and you know, know how to have like a full on mustache in there and say, right, like a dehydrator and like, I don’t know, sous vide, but it’s more of a two three. I wanted to make it very approachable. Okay. Yeah. Perfect. I know that the listener at home is probably going to want to want to know this. So or Ja, is that how you say it? You said it perfectly. Yes. Great. It’s a French word before heroes. I was panicked, but I wanted to go forward. Yeah. So the listener, that’s that or jet looking word that you see through all these or yet your or yeah. Yes. Any any strong opinions on how to pronounce philharmon. Is there a correct way? You know, philharmon and that’s I’m taking my opinion from both a panoplyo bartenders, your career bartenders, but also in the Caribbean since I have spent time there and how they’re locally pronouncing it to so philharmon is is kind of the generally accepted pronunciation. Perfect. You know, it sounds silly, but it is important. I feel like it’s I usually don’t put French wines by the glass because they don’t sell as well because people are afraid to pronounce them. Honestly. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And that’s that’s fine. This is total tangent. But one of my favorite wines most people don’t order because of that. So it’s called Ionico. Oh, yeah, from Greece. Oh, yeah. Ionico is actually a really good old world wine. But a lot of people because they don’t know. It’s like a sort of co I’ll just this Chardonnay. It’s short. Yeah, yes. I did also want to ask you I had a question I feel like I may know. But I was surprised. Why are the books not on Amazon? Was that a deliberate choice or? It was a deliberate choice. Yeah, I mean, Amazon takes a pretty hefty kind of things. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just Jeff Bezos has enough money. So right. But my first two books are available in Barnes and Noble. So I think right now, technically, there’s it’s shipping faster ordering from my website than it is through Barnes and Noble. But yeah, and that’s kind of my eventual like eventually my cocktail book, the Guide to Tropical Potions and Exotic Alixers will be on Barnes and Noble as well. So yeah. That’s super cool. Yeah, now I’m one of those that I wrote it down. I was like, I think I probably will know the answer to this. But you know, you never know, there might be some sort of fight or some sort of really juicy backstories. I wish. No, this is not economical. When I went to high school with Jeff, he just he was not very forgiving of the Tiki cocktails. That would have been a funny story. Awesome. Well, Linda, what are you up to now? Is anything exciting coming up? Or? Yeah, yeah, let’s see. What do I always get that’s exciting? Well, I’ll be presenting at Tiki Oasis in San Diego. That’s running, I believe, August 4th through 9th. Actually, not sure yet what I’m presenting on. Tens to be. Yeah, you know, they just say, hey, I’ll picture my ideas. And they’ll say, yeah, we love this one, or they’ll say, can you talk about X, Y and Z? So yeah, it’s exciting, a known topic, but that will be in San Diego. And yeah, I’m kind of just holding up locally and, and working on where I’m going to head next. I’m not sure if I have another book in the works, but I said that last time and, you know, I have three books. So your friends and family want more recipes. Well, yeah, I did best. So my daughter who’s now 16. But when my first book, when we were doing the test recipes, you know, she’s 11. And when we took that last picture, so I made the recipes, then we had to make them again to take the photographs. She said, oh, but I don’t want the Tiki lifestyle to end. Look, the Tiki lifestyle. Yes. You have a legacy to live up to young ones. Apparently, yes. So to her eating Tiki, you know, recipes each night was the lifestyle. Awesome.